Forums / TEAM Marine Depot / Corals and Coral Reefs - by Eric Borneman / Stephanocoenia / Latest Posts

RE: Stephanocoenia

Sherri — Tue, 13 May 2008 14:05:39 GMT

Hi Eric --

I can't see anything. I got the last hairy mushroom out yesterday, cleaned the sump/fuge up, put in carbon and it is looking a little better. I have to get on an airplane but this weekend I will post some pictures and I will try and get a close up picture too. I am cautiously optimistic.

RE: Stephanocoenia

Eric Borneman — Tue, 13 May 2008 06:18:00 GMT

Good advice thus far, but do you have a magnifying lens or a scope? Look carefully at the interface between the skeleton and live tissue....really closely...and see if you see any tiny tiny flat black specks or tiny brown cylinders moving in and out of the skeleton.

RE: Stephanocoenia

Sherri — Sun, 11 May 2008 04:13:24 GMT

I don't have room at the moment to do anything but throw a bag of carbon in the sump. I was using the Seagel but thought it might be the cause so I stopped. I do have some other carbon that I bought so I can throw that in. I am in the middle of planning a basement sump and fuge and will put a carbon reactor in -- was thinking of using an old Fluval that I have.

Chuck -- I have had this coral for just short of two years. It goes through times where it will withdraw in sections for a couple of days and it does that at regular intervals -- like every two months. I was so excited with that first picture because I thought -- finally -- this guy is rocking! But that did not last long unfortunately. I will add carbon today.

My sump is weird too -- there is hair algae growing in there, which has never happened before, and there is a strong ocean smell. There are diatoms on the sand (I have a small fuge section) too so I am actually going to empty the sump and clean it out. I am not sure what has led to this as my parameters seem fine. It could be a flow issue in the sump as I use a filter sock because of serious microbubbles. But this is recent and I have been using a sock for the life of this tank.

So I will clean the sump including all pumps, skimmer, etc. And I will add carbon, get a new DI filter and keep my fingers crossed.

RE: Stephanocoenia

Reefski — Sun, 11 May 2008 02:51:37 GMT

do you use carbon?

RE: Stephanocoenia

charlesr1958 — Sat, 10 May 2008 16:11:47 GMT

I would not expect a single corallimorph located in a sump to be an issue and only worry about such things if they are right next to and downstream of another coral. I have a few myself but keep them fairly isolated while running carbon at all times. Your parameters are spot on and can't see an issue there. If it were my system I would as Eric says, "have all guns blazing" with a skimmer in use and carbon (or new carbon) in use just as a precaution for a few weeks.

Not being familiar with caribbean species or trying to avoid saying "a coral is a coral", I also wonder if this coming and going is a normal event for these types of corals. I only say that because I see some species here that also seem to have periods of recession and then regain themselves, and do so with such frequency that they build up quite the calcium carbonate base. Why that is, is still a mystery to me.

Chuck

RE: Stephanocoenia

Sherri — Sat, 10 May 2008 08:32:23 GMT

So I tested water today and here are the results -- actually here is the last time I tested which was April 20th and today's. The tests for Ca and Alk are Elos, the rest are Salifert. My Refractometer is calibrated with RHF's recipe.

Salinity 1.025/1.025
Ca 450/450
Alk 7/9
PO4 0/0
Mg 1260/1230
Ph 8.2/8.2

So as you said Chuck, unless it is something that I cannot test for, I am not sure water params are the issue. The only other thing I can think of is if I am getting silicates -- if my DI cartridge needs changing. But nothing else is reacting.

The coral looks the same. I know you said several weeks but I was hoping for a bit more response by now. Although I still have a mushroom in the sump -- it is leaving on Monday. So if there are still some toxins in the water the coral may just stay static until they are completely gone.

RE: Stephanocoenia

Sherri — Thu, 08 May 2008 03:10:54 GMT

David -- I am not thinking it is lighting. The area that receded was bare from shipping, then it grew in, now it has receded. I am not seeing a big change yet from removing the mushrooms. There still is one in my sump but it will be gone tomorrow. If it doesn't heal up from this, my next thought is if it is actually the calcium I am using. I have been using Reef Complete which has mg and strontium in it too. I will do testing this weekend and see where my parameters are -- nothing else looks unhappy at this point so I am not sure exactly what is happening. Of course my clown had started hosting in the mushrooms has now gone back to this guy which does not make the recovery at this point easier. In addition, I added two fish to my tank, one being a sunburst anthias so I am feeding twice as much now so I will be really curious to see test results this weekend.

RE: Stephanocoenia

Graveyardworm — Tue, 06 May 2008 04:49:37 GMT

Sherri have you considered that shading could be the issue here? In the first picture the entire area where the tissue recession seems to have occured is very dark. If shading is the issue then I suspect as long as infection doesnt set in the recession will stop at the point where it finds conditions favorable.

RE: Stephanocoenia

charlesr1958 — Sun, 04 May 2008 18:42:38 GMT

Couldn't really say when to expect any signs of improvement but it would be a matter of weeks not days.

Chuck

RE: Stephanocoenia

Sherri — Sun, 04 May 2008 12:59:57 GMT

Chuck -- how quickly would you expect to see results? I was just thinking if this is a misdiagnosis then I don't want to wait too long to try and figure out what is happening. The mushrooms are in my sump and I hope to have them gone within the next couple of days. You can bet they are not happy though but at least the toxins are more diluted before they hit anybody at this point. The other strange thing is that one of the heads of my torch, which would have been first in the toxin line from the mushroom I had already removed and put at another spot in my tank, was looking unhappy! So we will see how everyone does!

RE: Stephanocoenia

charlesr1958 — Sun, 04 May 2008 08:47:28 GMT

Am glad the coral is able to recover so well, and lets hope the removal of the corallimorph is the solution. Let us know how it turns out.

Chuck

RE: Stephanocoenia

Sherri — Sun, 04 May 2008 08:23:44 GMT

The before picture is actually with rowaphos use for about 8 months. The mushrooms haven't been in there for very long. The downs were never as drastic as this nor as prolonged. One was my naked clown irritating it, another was a change in flow -- but each time it withdrew for a while, got used to the condition or I modified it eg: changed the flow and also barricaded the silly clown away from it. So I am going to give the mushrooms to a friend -- just take them out of my tank and see what happens. I had thought that the use of Seagel by Seachem was the culprit and I went back to rowaphos. It improved a little but not significantly. The it improved a little when I moved the big mushroom. Now, hopefully when I get the other mushroom and give both to my buddy the problem will be solved. The cool thing about this coral is if you can find the problem, it grows back beautifully.

RE: Stephanocoenia

charlesr1958 — Sun, 04 May 2008 05:42:31 GMT

Yeah, thats quite a drastic tissue loss. And of course with such events, unless it is some glaring, obvious parameter problem (such as phosphates, pH) it becomes really hard to pin down an exact cause as we are extremely limited in what we can actualy test for, and even then, those tests are just good ball park figures.

You mentioned that this is a reoccuring event for this coral? With the corallimorphs being new additions that might explain this recent event but what of the previous declines? With so little to actualy go on, I guess all one can do is eliminate obvious possibles such as the corallimorphs and stay on top of the basic water parameters.

hmmm, just a thought, you run a phosphate binder, I wonder if the binder is doing too good of a job and could be the culprit as well. Its a fine line between too much and too little phosphorous as the coral is in need of minute amounts yet becomes stressed with too much.

Chuck

RE: Stephanocoenia

Sherri — Sun, 04 May 2008 05:03:21 GMT

Thanks Charles -- just as added info I have used rowaphos for about a year so my phosphates are zero. My alk was a bit low but then then the withdrawal is usually uniform. Here's some before and now pics:

RE: Stephanocoenia

charlesr1958 — Sat, 03 May 2008 17:36:15 GMT

One possibility is that I have been gradually (over several months!) increasing my calcium in the tank and it now sits between 400 and 450. Prior to this it was 320 - 350. What is the calcium rated at in the Caribbean? I actually don't think this is the cause because the upper portion of the coral is still okay.

I doubt it could be the calcium level (420 is a good target number) unless it is having an affect on the alkalinity/pH of the water, but outside of that concern, as long as any given coral can get its minute daily requirement of calcium it doesn't matter from how large of or how small a pool of calcium it is taking it from.

The other possibility is some blue tipped hairy mushrooms that I added to the tank. I removed one and am planning on removing the other one. The Stephanocoenia and the mushroom are about 5 inches apart and have absolutely no contact. But the flow would be such that the water would primarily flow from the mushroom to the lower part of this coral. And if looked at this way including the pattern of the withdrawal of the polyps on the Stephanocoenia it's the same as having a bright neon light saying that it is the hairy mushroom. But everyone says their weapon is touch not chemicals.

I would also suspect the corallimorph as their mucus can contain some fairly potent toxins, which if being blown against your coral could cause issues (as you are seeing). I would also double check your phosphate levels as that is also another common cause for coral decline.

Chuck

Stephanocoenia

Sherri — Sat, 03 May 2008 08:32:46 GMT

Hi Eric -- me again!

I have a very large (8 inches +17 year old) Stephanocoenia coral that I received when I bought some coral rock from TBS. It has gone up and down in my tank but was getting really healthy. Now all of a sudden it is down but it is not uniform. I changed the flow several times including turning it off but that does not seem to be the issue. I have two potential causes that I want to test out with you.

One possibility is that I have been gradually (over several months!) increasing my calcium in the tank and it now sits between 400 and 450. Prior to this it was 320 - 350. What is the calcium rated at in the Caribbean? I actually don't think this is the cause because the upper portion of the coral is still okay.

The other possibility is some blue tipped hairy mushrooms that I added to the tank. I removed one and am planning on removing the other one. The Stephanocoenia and the mushroom are about 5 inches apart and have absolutely no contact. But the flow would be such that the water would primarily flow from the mushroom to the lower part of this coral. And if looked at this way including the pattern of the withdrawal of the polyps on the Stephanocoenia it's the same as having a bright neon light saying that it is the hairy mushroom. But everyone says their weapon is touch not chemicals.

Can you shed any light?